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| Pwned Galaxy Board - Pwned Galaxy - What do you believe in? |
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GamingG Giant Koopa Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 64 Posts: 954/1251 EXP: 2140121 For next: 73976 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 145 days Last activity: 10 days |
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Originally posted by Uly Good, but you don't even think of God as a leader so much as you think of him as a being that just created us and then stepped aside to watch. Originally posted by Uly That's Jewish belief, in a way. Originally posted by Uly I still don't know what you're saying. Originally posted by Uly There's another reason that God doesn't control us. We can't blame our actions on God unless he does control us, which he doesn't. Also, you have the ability to kill people, but I'm pretty sure that you never have. Originally posted by Uly If by "religion" you mean "belief/faith in him", then, yes, he does have different rules. But if by religion you mean "practices and rituals", then no, he does not have different rules. Originally posted by Uly Yes, I would, because you'd just be praying to God via a misnomer. Originally posted by Uly Yeah, I understand that. Originally posted by Uly I haven't? That's strange. Anyway, we come to Earth in order to live for God and do what he wants us to do. Basically, we live to decide whether we want to be good or be evil. Also, you keep saying that because God decides whether we go to Heaven or Hell, then that isn't part of our free will. If I left a pie out to cool and told you "if you eat any of that pie while I'm gone, then I'm going to kick you out of my house, but if not, I'll let you stay and share the pie with you", then, even though I decide what the consequences for each action are, you decide which consequences you get by performing different actions that you choose to do. |
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Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 58  Posts: 805/1019 EXP: 1491428 For next: 86118 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 373 days Last activity: 373 days |
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| > That's Jewish belief, in a way.
I don't need to be Jewish to have that belief. I still don't know what you're saying. Ok, now we're running in circles. > Also, you have the ability to kill people, but I'm pretty sure that you never have. But what if I was a killer? I could go and kill people. And since people eventually kill people, that's proof that we have this ability. Since God has never, and will never control someone, then there's no proof that he can. > If by "religion" you mean "belief/faith in him", then, yes, he does have different rules. But why? If the nicest guy in town is atheist, I find it unfair that he's sent to hell even when other bad people that believe in God and ask for God's forgiveness before death go to heaven. > we come to Earth in order to live for God and do what he wants us to do. Do you really believe that? Then our conceptions of God are totally different. And I don't like your "I CREATETH THOU, SO NOW, THOU SHALL DO EVERYTHING I SAY" God, like if we were God's slaves. Also, if God really wanted us to do that, he would be more clear about it, not creating thousands of religions that say something different so you probably end not doing what God wanted. "if you eat any of that pie while I'm gone, then I'm going to kick you out of my house, but if not, I'll let you stay and share the pie with you" To me, free will means that God lets us eat the pie right away, since he can make more, and there's no reason to kick us out of his house. |
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GamingG Giant Koopa Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 64 Posts: 957/1251 EXP: 2140121 For next: 73976 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 145 days Last activity: 10 days |
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Originally posted by Uly Agreed, though, I was just stating that part of your belief is similar to what Jews believe. That's only a part, though, so that doesn't you a Jew. Originally posted by Uly Alright, if you want, you can try to elaborate more and maybe I'll understand, but I don't think I'll see how that shows anything. Otherwise, we'll just drop this circular part of the discussion. Originally posted by Uly But you have hands and the ability to use weapons just as a killer does, so you can kill. And, yes, I agree, there's no proof that he can, but there's no proof for a lot of things that God is. Originally posted by Uly And you're not God. God created good. God is good. Therefore, what God says to do is good, and what God says not to do is bad. So, unless you're doing exactly as God says, then you're not doing everything good. Of course, no one can be perfect. Originally posted by Uly God may not have created us to be slaves, but he sure didn't create us to be his equals. Also, was it not you that said that MAN created religion, not God? EDIT: Oops, I submitted before writing this part: Originally posted by Uly I was trying to create a scenario in which God said what was right and what was wrong and made it clear that doing the right thing would lead to eternal happiness, and doing the wrong thing may lead to temporary happiness, but would end with eternal damnation. (edited by GamingG on 12-24-07 04:46 PM) |
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Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 58 Posts: 809/1019 EXP: 1491428 For next: 86118 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 373 days Last activity: 373 days |
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| > That's only a part, though, so that doesn't you a Jew.
I still think that if God is not going to send the Jews to hell just because they don't believe in Christ, he will not send me there either. > Otherwise, we'll just drop this circular part of the discussion. Ok, I'll try it with a text example: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Left is past, and right is future. Cyan is "Not born yet" and Green is "In heaven." And the Cyan and Green lines are basically infinite. In your belief, we're right now on the white line, but if you look closely, the chance of being exactly in this line, is virtually 0, that's what I meant with "We would have not born yet, or we would already be in heaven." Now, this is how it looks like on my belief: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Since we can come back to earth from heaven, then there are plenty more white lines we could be in. We're now just in one of them. Also, if we spent the same time on heaven than in earth, the chance of being alive in earth is ~50%, much higher than ~0%. This is the reason that I believe in reincarnation. > I agree, there's no proof that he can, but there's no proof for a lot of things that God is. Giving God the powers to control us is restricting free will. Restricted free will makes it not completely free, so free will wouldn't exist anymore. I believe in free will, so my definition excludes God's power to control us. > God created good. But God also created evil, since he created everything. I wouldn't include "atheism" into "being evil", so I don't see it as a reason for going to hell. > Also, was it not you that said that MAN created religion, not God? But since God created man, should he get the final credit? Either God created religion, or our free will created religion. And, how do you know that we're not god like when we're in heaven? I was trying to create a scenario in which God said what was right and what was wrong The analogy didn't work because in the beginning, while God is gone (?), eating pie is bad, but when God is back eating pie is good. But in earth what is good is good, and what is bad is bad, always. This is one question that I wanted to ask: How do you know that you are in the right religion? If the opposing religion is the right one, then you're probably going to hell just because you didn't do what God said on the other religion's Bible. |
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GamingG Giant Koopa Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 64 Posts: 978/1251 EXP: 2140121 For next: 73976 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 145 days Last activity: 10 days |
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Originally posted by Uly It's more like... there are three options, A (Judaism), B (Christianity), and C (everything else), and A and B get you to Heaven. Of course, I don't really know if modern-day Jews go to Heaven, but I do know that all Jews before Christ did, and I just don't think that what worked then would cease to work now. Originally posted by Uly I still don't see why you believe that reincarnation is so just because your own existence is unlikely. Nearly everything is unlikely, and, yet, everything that has happened, has happened. Originally posted by Uly So so be it. But, God's ability to deal consequences doesn't destroy free will. Originally posted by Uly Atheism isn't a reason for going to Hell no more than being a nice person is. Lack of faith is a reason for going to Hell. Originally posted by Uly No, what man does is man's fault, not God's. I could create a weapon to defend myself, but someone could take it and use it to murder. That's not my fault. We are gods in Heaven. In fact, we're gods right now, just to a lesser extent. Of course, even in Heaven, we will never be as powerful as God. Originally posted by Uly Alright, so my scenario had a flaw. Well, how about this: eating pie before it sets out is bad, but letting it cool is good. Now look at the scenario again. If it's still not good, I'll make another one. Originally posted by Uly It's not about religion. It's about faith and obeying God. But, I have absolute certainty that the God I pursue is almighty and just, and, most of all, exists. If I wasn't absolutely sure, then I wouldn't be so adamant about it. |
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Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 58 Posts: 822/1019 EXP: 1491428 For next: 86118 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 373 days Last activity: 373 days |
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| > It's more like... there are three options, A (Judaism), B (Christianity), and C (everything else), and A and B get you to Heaven.
Well, those sound like made up rules by your religion, and I can't believe that God set them. > I still don't see why you believe that reincarnation is so just because your own existence is unlikely. I do it because what is most likely is that I will be again alive on earth. Now, I think it's time to drop this circular part from the discussion. > But, God's ability to deal consequences doesn't destroy free will. I think it's pointless to discuss what God can or can't do regarding free will. If he will never control us, his ability is useless. > Lack of faith is a reason for going to Hell. But why does God want us to have faith in him? Free will includes having choice on our belief, and we can also choose to not believe in deity. Being atheist doesn't automatically make you a bad person. Before America was discovered, the Mayans had their own gods and beliefs, and no way to believe in one God, nor in Christ, so it'd be unfair to send the nicest Mayan to hell just because of its ignorance. > No, what man does is man's fault, not God's. But why did God create evil in first place? We couldn't be evil if he didn't create it (Or, God didn't create everything.) > Of course, even in Heaven, we will never be as powerful as God. But how do you know how much power do we have in heaven? That maybe the world we are inhabiting right now was invented by other than God, is a possibility, to me. (Analogy: God created the internet, but you can create your website.) > Now look at the scenario again. If it's still not good, I'll make another one. "Killing someone when he's young is bad, but when he's old enough, it's good to kill him." Make another one  (Not working because you eventually eat the pie.)
> It's not about religion. It's about faith and obeying God. Yes, we had this conversation before. I brought it up again because the equation has changed. When your religion says that we must have faith in Jesus Christ or we're going to hell, then religion has an importance (And so, the definition of "obeying God" is different in every religion, making it about religion again.) Also, for some days I thought that you got bored of this discussion XD |
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GamingG Giant Koopa Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 64 Posts: 979/1251 EXP: 2140121 For next: 73976 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 145 days Last activity: 10 days |
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Originally posted by Uly That's why I don't worry about that kind of stuff and focus on what God tells ME to do. Originally posted by Uly Dropped. Originally posted by Uly God tells us to do something, and we choose whether or not to do it, knowing that it will give us positive rewards to do what he says or negative consequences to not do so. As for those Mayans and everyone else, I don't know exactly how it works for them, since God did not tell them anything to do. Of course, that means that they listened to everything God told them. So, I don't know, though, I do believe that God looks at the intent of the heart. Originally posted by Uly Everything we have now was originally created by God, but many things have been modified by man (God created trees, and we created houses, so we say that man invented the house). I never said that man didn't create anything. But, man wouldn't have been able to make anything without God's help. So, man used what God had created to create evil. Originally posted by Uly God makes a pie. God tells you that you can do whatever you want in his house, as long as you don't break anything, and if he tells you to do something later, you keep listening. God says that when the pie is ready to eat, he'll give you some if you listened, but if you broke anything or didn't listen, then you can't have any. Originally posted by Uly Alright, then, in that sense, it is about religion. Originally posted by Uly Nah, I just didn't know what to say for a while. It's been a while since I have had just an engaging discussion, and I wanted to back off for a bit to recharge my brain, since I think I was on the verge of contradicting myself or not making sense. XD |
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Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 58 Posts: 823/1019 EXP: 1491428 For next: 86118 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 373 days Last activity: 373 days |
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| That's why I don't worry about that kind of stuff and focus on what God tells ME to do.
Does God talk to you?  (And, your Bible is part of your religion.)
Dropped. Ok, just let me do the last argument about this, since the colored text didn't work: Imagine that you get on your ship, and go to another planet. When you get off of it, the first thing you see is a blue tree. Now, what is more likely, that you have landed in the only part of the planet that contains a blue tree, or that the planet contains several blue trees? (And so, landing in a place that contains one is normal.) This is the same as the example of the box full of candies. If you put your hand inside of it and grab a chocolate, what is more likely, that you have picked the only chocolate of the box, or that the box contains several chocolates? (And so, getting a chocolate is normal.) This is my logic, if I'm alive right now, and I assume that I'm going to exist for eternity, then I find it likely that I'll be alive again on earth (Like finding another blue tree, or taking another chocolate.) Dropped. God tells us to do something, and we choose whether or not to do it Once again, God has never talked to me. I don't know exactly how it works for them, since God did not tell them anything to do. Well, to them, their Gods told them to kill and sacrifice people to the gods, so they did that. What God "tells" you depends on your beliefs. I do believe that God looks at the intent of the heart. I think this applies to everyone, regardless of beliefs. So, man used what God had created to create evil. But God let us create evil. You can't let your kid to buy a gun, and then hope that he doesn't use it. You don't let him buy the gun. In my belief, God only created Karma and Dharma, and lets us punish ourselves for our bad actions. he'll give you some if you listened, but if you broke anything or didn't listen, then you can't have any. Now this works. One think I don't like, is that you can basically turn God's house upside down, and when the pie is ready, say "I'm sorry", and God will give you pie. Also, I don't like the idea that besides not giving you the pie, he also sends you to eternal pain in hell. Alright, then, in that sense, it is about religion. So, in that sense, how do you know that God told you to do what you think that he told you to do? How did you reached your conclusions? I wanted to back off for a bit to recharge my brain Ya, I noticed that my answers get a lot better if I think about them overnight, but I can post those better answer the next day anyway, so no need to wait  |
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GamingG Giant Koopa Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 64 Posts: 986/1251 EXP: 2140121 For next: 73976 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 145 days Last activity: 10 days |
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Originally posted by Uly Does God not talk to you? Originally posted by Uly Boxes of chocolate typically contain more than one chocolate. We know this due to the fact that we both have probably taken several chocolates from boxes, and, thus, we know that boxes are supposed to contain more than one chocolate. However, as far as we can remember, we have only taken one life-chocolate out of God's box, so we can't really say that God's box has more than one life for us in it. Un-dropped if you want to continue, otherwise, dropped. Originally posted by Uly Has he never talked to you, or have you never listened? Rarely, if even ever, will you hear the voice of God in an audible form. Usually, you'll just get such a great idea that there's no possible way you could have thought of it. You might not even notice that it's a thought different than your own until you look back on it later. It's a bit hard to explain, really, and I don't think I've done a good job here, actually. : / Originally posted by Uly But a lot of what they did was based on what their ancestors did, as well. Originally posted by Uly If your intent is towards God, then, yes. Like I said, it's not about religion. Originally posted by Uly But, you can't stop your child from doing anything once you have taught him or her how to properly act and behave. If you do try to do that, the child will eventually rebel. That's why God doesn't try to control us and give us free will at the same time, since it wouldn't make sense and it would just make us despise him, most likely. Originally posted by Uly Well, God will obviously see the difference between a true and sincere request for forgiveness and a made-up lie to try to escape punishment. Originally posted by Uly Well, that's the hard part. Since I'm obviously not perfect, I don't always listen to what I'm supposed to do, and sometimes I just don't know. But, I have to try my best to do what I am supposed to do. Originally posted by Uly And, this time, I just didn't notice the new reply. Silly me. |
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Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 58 Posts: 830/1019 EXP: 1491428 For next: 86118 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 373 days Last activity: 373 days |
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| Does God not talk to you?
I talk to him, in my praying, and he answers by causing things outside of my power, to happen. I also pray to thank him. But as for words, or "Do A, B and C or you're going to hell", then no, God does not talk to me. However, as far as we can remember, we have only taken one life-chocolate out of God's box, so we can't really say that God's box has more than one life for us in it. Once again, if we're to get only 1 chocolate, in all eternity, the most likely is that we would have not gotten the chocolate yet, or that we would already eaten it. In my belief, we already ate it, but we got another one (And, since this effect also applies to the new chocolate, what is most likely is that once we ate the chocolate, we can ask God for more, and God will give it to us.) It's a bit hard to explain, really, and I don't think I've done a good job here, actually. : / It sounds similar to when an original idea for my comics seems to come from nowhere. However, it could be an angel, or something else, and I've also have bad ideas "that there's no possible way I could have thought of it", and that's of course, not God. But a lot of what they did was based on what their ancestors did, as well. Exactly, but the same happens to your religion and its beliefs of Christ and hell. You believe what you believe, because your ancestors told these histories to other ancestors, until it was written up and called the Bible. But other books as old as the Bible exist, that say very different things, so I don't see why should I believe in only one book. If your intent is towards God, then, yes. Like I said, it's not about religion. Thanks, then that means I'm not going to hell, even if I don't believe in Christ or I'm not Jew. But, you can't stop your child from doing anything once you have taught him or her how to properly act and behave. My mother taught me how to act and behave, good enough to never pick a gun and kill. She doesn't control me, but I think that she made a good job. But as for God, he doesn't go and teach everyone how should they properly act and behave, so when someone picks a gun and kills, I still ask why God did nothing. Well, God will obviously see the difference between a true and sincere request for forgiveness and a made-up lie to try to escape punishment. Yes, but I still don't like the fact that God forgives this bad person just for a true and sincere request, and lets him stay at God's house, and gives him pie, while a person that just didn't believe in the pie (atheist) but was good enough to not touch anything, is still kicked out of the house, without pie. But, I have to try my best to do what I am supposed to do. The question was about how do you know what're you supposed to do? And, this time, I just didn't notice the new reply. Why? Wasn't it big enough? XD |
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