 |
|||||
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Calendar
| Online users
| Ranks
| FAQ Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat | Last 50 Posts | RPG Control Panel | Contact |
|
| | ||
| 0 user currently in Pwned Galaxy. | 8 guests |
| Pwned Galaxy Board - Pwned Galaxy - What do you believe in? |
 |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
|---|---|---|---|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55  Posts: 787/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
| I've read that people that don't believe on anything, eventually suicide, because they think that their lives have no purpose, and so when they feel happy, soon the desperation of the question "What's the purpose of my happiness?" takes over and they don't feel happy anymore. A life like that cannot last for too long so they will soon find a way to die.
The rest of us, on the other hand, at least know that there should be a purpose, or don't care about it, but we believe in something, call it, god, nature, the universe, or it being mysterious, etc. So, what do you believe in? And why? (For the nature of this thread, I think that it deserves The Pit.) |
|||
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 939/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
| God is omnipotent and omnipresent. Jesus Christ, son of God, died for the forgiveness of the sins of all that accept him. Paradise awaits those that follow him.
Why do I believe this way? I could talk about this for an extremely long time, but I'll just write a condensed version of one of the many reasons. I'll stick with the season to set up this metaphor. Imagine this. You're a child waiting for Santa Claus to give you the presents you've been waiting for ever so anxiously. Of course, (CHRISTMAS SPOILER! HIGHLIGHT TO READ AT YOUR OWN RISK)you don't know that it's really your parents doing it for you. Eventually, when you realize that something like this can't just be happening for no reason, you investigate to find that it was your parents looking out for you all along. Now, bring the metaphor into my situation. Here I am, receiving life and blessings. How could I possibly think that this comes from nowhere? Surely this is not just fortune. There's a moving force. God. The only explanation. Like I said before, that's not my only reason by no means, but it's just one example. |
|||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 788/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
| I just have one problem with religion's God. That the whole universe was created only for us, humans, seems way too arrogant to me. | |||
|
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 944/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
| Actually, the universe was created probably because God experienced something like loneliness. God was the only existing being. He then created various life forms, but the one life form that was in his image--human beings--reigned superior over the other life forms. Additionally, humans have a free will because of the superiority--but is this a curse or a gift? The fact that we can choose our fate means that many humans will go to Hell by choice. Other lifeforms cannot go to Hell.
Also, what's wrong with other lifeforms on other planets far away? Though I don't believe either way due to lack of evidence supporting either side, it's possible that God created alien life. |
|||
pple Banvil Banned for banning people. Level: 28  Posts: 165/216 EXP: 131310 For next: 28 Since: 12-26-05 Since last post: 388 days Last activity: 216 days |
| ||
| I believe the world will end within my lifetime. Therefore I must stay alive to see it. | |||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 791/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
Originally posted by GamingG I share this view. Originally posted by GamingG Are we humans superior? We're intelligent, sure, but that also gives us more pain and suffering. And it doesn't give us more happiness, when a cat is happy, it's just as happy as us, so no advantage. The most suffering the animals have, is caused by us, humans. Originally posted by GamingG Free will was a necessity, because God couldn't create life without free will. It's like the comics I write, in where I create characters, but I have total control over what they do and what happens to them. Writing these comics wouldn't help me on my loneliness (Because they are just an extension of me, like discussing with the mirror) but once I give them free will, and I have no control about their actions, I feel no longer lonely. Originally posted by GamingG I don't believe in hell, I believe in Karma and the balance of the universe. You do something bad, and something bad happens to you, and Dharma, I do something good and something good happens to me. But eternal happiness/sadness after death? Nah... Originally posted by GamingG Why not? Animals also do have free will, they're just unintelligent, but they decide what they do, they're not just like your screensaver. Originally posted by GamingG Not only possible, but likely. The chances of the needed requirements for a supporting life planet like earth, existing, is about 1 out of 100'000'000'000, much lower than the number of galaxies on the universe, so the chance of life NOT existing outside earth is pretty small. (Intelligent life is another matter, but there's the theory that life was seeded on earth, by a meteoroid.) Originally posted by GamingDS Probably at 2012, since it has been predicted by many civilizations on the past, but don't hold your breath (And it has been said that it was a metaphorical end, as in the end of the world as we know it, so don't be disappointed.) Also, thanks for posting. |
|||
|
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 945/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Uly Superior - In a hierarchy or tree structure of any kind, a superior is an individual or position at a higher level in the hierarchy than another (a "subordinate"), and thus closer to the apex. No one owns us. We are not slaves to any master. We are not killed regularly for food. Everything we do is more influential than any other creature. In that sense, we are superior. Originally posted by Uly I agree. Originally posted by Uly I believe in some concepts similar to Karma and Dharma, but not totally. One's actions will change one's consequences, though, there are other factors involved, such as the actions of others. If I'm the nicest guy in town, I'll have lots of friends and not be lonely, but that doesn't mean that I won't get robbed or hit by a drunk driver. And, as I said in my original post, I do believe in Heaven and Hell as eternal destinations. I believe that a human is composed of three parts. The body, the spirit, and the soul. The body is what ties us to the Earth. It belongs to the Earth, and one day, the Earth will get it back (unless the body is put in a casket, majorly delaying the process; but, either way, the body isn't going to leave Earth (or at least not the known universe)). The spirit is what ties us to God. The spirit belongs to God, and, because of that, is literally part of God. The soul is is the only part that truly belongs to us. It allows us to control our bodies. It is our free will. It is what makes a person. When a person dies, the body stays with the Earth, the spirit returns to God, and the soul, no longer attached to a spirit, goes to its rightful destination: Heaven or Hell. Originally posted by Uly Then again, the chances of every event that scientists have theorized that led up to the creation of human life is so small that it's almost immeasurable. Originally posted by Uly To me, I see just as much of a chance of it happening tomorrow as in 2012. Originally posted by Uly You're welcome. Thanks for the topic. |
|||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 792/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
Originally posted by GamingG Ok, I give you that we're superior, but that doesn't mean that we have the image of God (There could be an alien race superior to humans, that would have an image closer to God, and that could be very different from humans.) Originally posted by GamingG Wouldn't life be very unfair if you got robber for no reason at all? I don't believe in that, because that would negate the Karma/Dharma idea. Being the nicest guy in town has to give you a reward, like protection about such bad things. If this wasn't true, then the opposite also wouldn't. So I could be the meanest guy in town, and get away with it. But it shouldn't work this way, as then it wouldn't make sense and we would have no reason to be nice, and no reason to not be mean. If you get hit by a drunk driver it must be the universe going towards the balance, so you had done something bad in the past and it's Karma in action. Maybe you don't remember what was it, but I don't think that it happened out of random, or fate, or luck, it was your past actions that lent you into the moment in where you got the hit. Originally posted by GamingG It's fine as long as it works for you, since I don't believe in absolute truth. However, I believe in reincarnation, using very simple math logic. How much time has happened before you born? And how much time will it happen after you die? Now, add them up. We have there a big number, probably some kind of infinite number. Now, take the number of years that you have lived + the numbers of years that you're going to live, and add them up. You'll get a number such as 100 years, and now you can get the probability of you actually living your actual life, that would be 100 out of there really big number. That means that the chances of being alive are virtually 0, or that we are always alive. Think about it, if you're going to live 100 years on earth an the eternity on heaven, then chances are that you would already be in heaven and had lived that very small 100 years part many years ago, or that you wouldn't have born yet. The fact that you're living right now, to me, is a signal that we're always living, and a way to explain that is reincarnation. We can even go as far as fusing both ways of thinking and believe that you go to heaven for a while until you decide to come back and reincarnate, since that's a possibility. Originally posted by GamingG But that's the reason I believe in God in the first place! The chance of the universe being created in a cosmic egg and a big bang (or other scientific craze) is the same as a hurricane coming to your house and turning it into a plane. Just see all the organization of things that work, even the simplest ones, they just couldn't happen by themselves, it must have been someone! And that's what I call God, even if it is totally different from what we humans conceive as God. Originally posted by GamingG But it hasn't been predicted to happen at December 2007. Mayans were able to predict their own destruction successfully, as long as past predictions that happened up to 25000 years of antiquity. These 25000 years are the "Sun years", the time it takes for the sun to travel around the galaxy, and every new "sun year" (they say) all the civilizations on earth are basically destroyed and have to begin from scratch. Something like this will supposedly happen at 2012, but of course, it means a new beginning, not the very end as some imagine it. |
|||
|
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 946/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Uly The Bible clearly states that we are made in the image of God; however, since the soul and spirit are no longer attached to the body after death, being made in God's "image" could simply be the fact that we are all gods due to our spirits. We are not gods with power anywhere near that of God himself, but we have enough to be superior. EDIT: Oops, forgot to mention: If there is other life that has superiority, it would also share this "image" of God. Originally posted by Uly One thing I can't get over about Karma and Dharma... what if something bad happens that brings out a greater good? Is that Karma or Dharma? Thus, the concepts have to be sub-concepts of a greater concept. Given that, if getting hit by the drunk driver caused you to be hospitalized for 6 months in which you decided to turn your life of evil around, Karma and Dharma couldn't really explain that. However, they could explain why the drunk driver is now in prison for a very long time. Originally posted by Uly Allow me to add to your idea. Now take that number and multiply it by the number of lives that have ever been. You'll get an extremely large number. That's the average amount of lives existing during yours. So, now it doesn't look so impossible, now, does it? What about the order, though? Seeing that both of our systems of belief incorporate God, it's safe to say that you'll agree on this (if not, correct me): the order was chosen by God. God has his ways and reasons for all things. You are your mother's and father's child for a reason. Originally posted by Uly I see no compelling reason to believe in reincarnation, nor do I see one not to. Whether or not God would allow a Heaven-destined soul to return to Earth--over even if he would actually command it--is debatable, but not provable either way. If it was important for us to remember "past lives", then we would already remember them. So, if we are able to reincarnate, then God has removed the knowledge of the previous live(s) from our Earthly minds. Originally posted by Uly If you believe that God sent Jesus Christ to purge your sins upon acceptance of him, then I do not care if your concept differs from mine. Originally posted by Uly True, but I plan to live my life as if I could die tomorrow or if I could die in another 150 years at the same time. Do all I can, the best I can, as much as I can, as well as I can, and as close to what is perfect, right, and not evil as I can possibly be. (edited by GamingG on 12-20-07 10:45 PM) |
|||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 793/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
Originally posted by GamingG I don't believe in the Bible. Since it was written by men, they could well write down that all they wrote was inspired by God, but there would not be a way to know. Also, most things on the Bible were just based on older stories from older places, they basically got a load of stories and mixed all of them on a big book. And we have the "apócrifo" (unauthentic?) books that were left out of the Bible. These are tied with the books on the Bible and explain further that the angels seen, and the contact with God, and other miraculous things, were probably aliens (And they don't imply that, but you may reach that logical conclusion after reading those books.) Personally, I think that the Bible should be taken metaphorically, not literally, and then it has great value and wisdom, but you may need to keep in mind that most of its stories actually never happened (And then some other did happen, but it'd be difficult to know which ones.) Originally posted by GamingG It's Dharma. It could look like Karma at the beginning, but what you should seek for is the end result (Like if you win the lottery and it causes your death, it's Karma, unless you wanted to die, so then it depends on the situation.) Originally posted by GamingG It's Karma. Because being evil will cause more and more Karma, and you don't want that, so it's bad for you. Also, when that happens, there must be a lot of Karma around the persons surrounding you, since your evilness is going to cause them suffering and pain, that means more Karma. Originally posted by GamingG I'm talking about your own personal perception, regardless of persons other than you. According to you, that personal perception didn't perceive nothing before you born, and after you die it will only perceive heaven, so we're left again with only 100 years of being here, and the fact is that the chance of being here is almost nil, unless you're always here, or that you eventually come back to live this perception of reality again. Originally posted by GamingG Yes, but I believe in free will beyond death. On my belief, once you die, you go to heaven (let's call it heaven for simplicity, even though my idea and your idea of heaven would be totally different). On heaven there exists eternal happiness, but there's not a way to feel suffering or pain, or even there's not a way to feel unhappy. Things eventually get boring, since there's nothing to learn (We already know everything), or to do (Why to do anything if you already have the maximum happiness). Some souls will be happy with it, but others would want to try something else, so they decide to visit earth. They make preparations for their life on earth, like who their parents will be, and even what soul will be their partner, and even which souls will be their sons and grandsons (I don't know till where this planning goes.) Like families of spirits. This time I'll be your brother, and the next your cousin, etc. Since time doesn't matter, these preparations may take hundreds of years, but you eventually come and live your planned life (Because, you don't only plan your relatives, but also other things about your life, like where do you born and what will you probably do). The thing is that once you're here, your plans will interfere with other souls plans, and so nothing goes exactly as expected (You may not met your planned partner etc.) This is so we get to feel unhappiness (And all the other feelings beside happiness) and compare it, and have more appreciation for the good things. Is as if heaven was only white, but there are a lot of other colors, so we come to earth to see blue, red and black, and all the others, and experience things that we wouldn't experience otherwise, instead of only boring heaven (I cannot grasp another reason for coming to earth, since I don't buy the "you come to learn" reason.) Originally posted by GamingG On my belief, when we die, all the memories of past lives come back to us (otherwise we would get amnesia every time we live and it wouldn't be worth it.) But they're probably with us right now. Do you know regression? It's when someone hypnotizes you and goes through your memory back in time, and it seems that every moment of our life is in the memory, since it can send you back to 1995, and you can see your memories of a given date with all the small details. What is interesting is what happens when you want to go back in time before your birth, since it was to be expected to be blank. But it's not! All persons talk about past lives on there, they're consistent (the recalled memories before birth are always the same) and they match with real life events. I don't call it proof for reincarnation, but I wonder why God would put false memories on there. Originally posted by GamingG I believe that the Jesus Christ story was based on a thousand of years older story of someone that came and gave his life for humanity. I hope that our different beliefs don't interfere with our friendship. Originally posted by GamingG Funny thing, that I just checked the exact date of the prophecy, and it's December 21st 2012! That's exactly 5 years from today. Anyway, that's the reason this thread is at The Pit, because what we believe doesn't matter, what matter is what we do with our beliefs. If someone worships Satan, but he's a very nice person and a model to follow, then his belief in Satan is irrelevant. (edited by Uly on 12-21-07 08:49 AM) |
|||
|
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 947/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Uly I do not take the Bible as absolute truth due to the possibility of errors, which is why I trust in God directly more than I trust in the Bible; however, trusting in God has led me to find a large amount of truth in the Bible. So, I do believe in the Bible. I didn't think that you did, which is why I tried to avoid references to it in order to back up my statements. Originally posted by Uly I now better understand the concepts, but I still disagree. Total belief in Karma and Dharma would mean allow for judgment by means of a pit of snakes. A person gets thrown into a pit of snakes, and, whether they live or die proves whether they were evil or good overall. Originally posted by Uly Because you looked at only the life of one person, but looked at all possible time, of course, anyone could see that there are a near infinite number of possible lifespans for that single life, making it unlikely to have any of them. There are also a great number of Chess games, making it unlikely for any one game to occur. Yet, in both cases, probability isn't just going to give up and say "since they're all such low probability, let's just make it not happen!". Obviously, one of the outcomes has to occur. It just so happened that I was to live my lifespan and you were to live yours. Thus, I see no proof of reincarnation in what you're saying, but I do see a proof that there has to be some sort of order in the universe, which, while it doesn't prove God, does suggest that there is one. Of course, we've already established that, but it's nice to have further evidence. Originally posted by Uly I think Heaven sounds boring, too. But, I also know that I'm a human being. What sounds boring to me now won't sound boring to me in Heaven. Though I am not arguing in favor or against reincarnation, I am arguing against the concept of "leaving out of boredom". Also, I never discredited free will beyond death. Originally posted by Uly See, that's what I was saying. If there is reincarnation, then God doesn't want us to remember our "past lives", so we don't remember them here on Earth. Originally posted by Uly It saddens me that you do not believe in him, but if I were the kind of person to let that effect our friendship, then I would have almost no friends. Originally posted by Uly I disagree. I do believe that what we believe in matters. Of course, there are also varying degrees of "worship". Someone could claim to worship Satan and actually only say so because they are angry at their parents, God, or something like that. This person, aside from that detail, could be a "good" person. A true Satan worshiper would not be a nice person. Simple proof of this idea can be easily observed. If I believe in God who tells me to love my neighbor, and I see you drop a large amount of things to the floor, even though you're always mean to me, I'll go and help you pick up your things because of my beliefs. If I believed in Satan who tells me to destroy my enemies, then I'd either ignore you, laugh at you, or make it worse in some other way. Anyway, in conclusion, we can continue this conversation as long as it does not appear that we are going in circles; however, it would seem that that is already happening to some degree. Nothing we talk about will anger me. I actually like to discuss and debate topics, because it gives me a chance to examine my own beliefs and opinions, and, where I see flaws, I can improve, and this also gives the same chance to my co-discusser/co-debater. |
|||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 794/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
Originally posted by GamingG But what Bible? Basically every religion has their own version. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses (the religion I was in before becoming agnostic)' Bible teaches that Jesus Christ was not crucified, that all the religions that teach that are wrong, and that in the armageddon, God will get angry against them for teaching such lies and destroy them and their members. That's why I can't believe in the Bible, first I'd have to choose in which one to believe. Originally posted by GamingG But if all of them die, it was because of Karma. Everyone has some kind of Karma, the "nicest guy" in town of our example doesn't exist. And, the problem of Karma is that you never know when will it hit and why. You could be paying for some mischief that you made when you were a kid, that you don't even remember anymore. Originally posted by GamingG Of course, I only looked at my life. Other persons should only look at their own lives since they can't perceive the reality of others. The original idea was to prove that there's something after death, and it proves mathematically that the chances that we eventually get to live another life on earth is virtually 100%. Believing on an eternal heaven after death is just a thing of faith. Originally posted by GamingG Yes, you did (Unless I misunderstood you). You said that God decides whether you go to Heaven or Hell, and God decides that you should stay there for all eternity. I said that you can decide to come back to life whenever you feel like it. There's a big difference about who decides what. Originally posted by GamingG Once again, I say that probably we decide to forget everything when we come to earth, since remembering eternal happiness would be distracting and ineffective. We'd probably want to die to go back to that eternal happiness, so we need to forget everything before birth. Originally posted by GamingG Just like you don't believe in reincarnation. I'm not saying that Jesus Christ isn't real, I'm just having a neutral opinion about him. Originally posted by GamingG Ah, the example I'm talking about, is about a religion that believed in Satan, said that he was good, that God was evil, and so they worshiped Satan and prayed to him. Yet they were good persons. Originally posted by GamingG It works because we don't try to force our beliefs in the other person, and only state our opinions about them. (We could be discussing something else, I just thought that this was a hot topic.) |
|||
|
pple Banvil Banned for banning people. Level: 28 Posts: 166/216 EXP: 131310 For next: 28 Since: 12-26-05 Since last post: 388 days Last activity: 216 days |
| ||
| I believe that this does not belong in The Pit. | |||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 797/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
Originally posted by GamingDS Oh, and you do force your beliefs on us! D: |
|||
|
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 948/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Uly For the most part, I agree with Protestants. So look at the Protestant Bible. Also, Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT Christians, they only claim to be. They are a cult and have beliefs very different from ours due to subtle changes that they have made to their Bible. They believe that you must earn your way into Heaven by being one of the best 144,000 people to have ever lived. I am not surprised that you find it hard to trust the Bible and Christians after being involved with them, but I assure you that they are not a good representation of Christians, the Bible, and God. Originally posted by Uly I still believe that God does forgive and that evil and good cannot be stockpiled in such a way that every action has a consequence; however, that's no excuse for evil behavior. Originally posted by Uly Imagine I told you to flip a coin 1 time. Is it possible to get no heads? Yes, it is. What about 100 times? It's still possible to only get tails on the coin flip. But what about infinite times? No. If there is a possibility of an event occurring each iteration of an infinite cycle, then it is going to happen no matter what. So, you'll have to be born sometime, because we were "trying" to be born again and again and again until it finally happened. Originally posted by Uly God doesn't really decide whether we go to Heaven or Hell, but, rather, lays out the requirements for Heaven (which are quite simple, by the way), and, if not met, the soul defaults to Hell. So, it's our choice. Additionally, if your definition of free will means that God is not superior to you and in control, then we have never had free will and will never get it. Originally posted by Uly That is exactly what I said, except that I stated that God would remove the memories. Additionally, I also said that IF reincarnation is real. Originally posted by Uly Speaking of not accepting Jesus, I thought I'd just throw this out there: Jews go to Heaven. God already gave them commandments to follow and required them to be faithful to him to get into Heaven, and they did. So when some guy comes along and claims to be the Messiah, they remained faithful to God. God did not tell the Jews that Jesus really was the Messiah, so the Jews did not stop obeying God. Originally posted by Uly Then they'd either be actually committing evil or they would believe like Christians, only with the names of God and Satan switched around. Originally posted by Uly I just wanted to tell you that I won't be angered because I didn't want you to be afraid to talk about anything. I can clearly tell the difference between discussion and insults, and you have never done the latter. Anyway, one quick thing about reincarnation. Religions believing in reincarnation, until recently, have seen it as a bad thing. Living again is a punishment for not doing it right the first time. The reincarnation cycle eventually ends when they get it right, and they go to Heaven. Only recently have people began to craft their own perfect religion, usually by mixing concepts of other religions along with new beliefs. One thing that many humans seek is immortality. And, of course, they're not exactly going to convince someone that they have immortality for long, as they'll eventually die, ending that religion. But, a religion that says you'll be stuck in an infinite loop of living? That could pass as truth. And one more thing: If we chose to forget everything before we came here to live again, why did we plan in our lives to learn what we made ourselves forget in the first place? If we wanted to forget it, I imagine that we would have, if anything, made ourselves avoid learning about reincarnation. |
|||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 798/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
Originally posted by GamingG I think that God cares a lot more about my actions than about my religion. Originally posted by GamingG So I can be really bad, and rob and kill, and other ugly things, but when I'm going to die I can ask for God's forgiveness and still go to heaven? Originally posted by GamingG Yes, eventually you're born, but since you only spend these 100 years on earth, and the rest in heaven, then the big amount of time in heaven will be overwhelming (As in, everyone would already be in hell or heaven, or we eventually come back to earth.) Originally posted by GamingG But these requirements have been invented by humans, not God, they also vary from religion to religion, and you end following the rules of your parent's religion, without proof that it's the right religion. Originally posted by GamingG My definition includes that God can't control our actions. If God could control our actions, everyone would be good and would be worshiping him correctly (Why would God want evil people? He doesn't, but he gives them free will and some decide to go evil.) Originally posted by GamingG And I said that maybe God didn't make all the rules. In my belief, once you're in heaven you can talk directly to God, and God may change the rules for you if there's a good reason. So the "memory erased" rule may had come from someone other than God. Originally posted by GamingG So, am I able to not believe in Jesus and still go to heaven? Originally posted by GamingG If I pray to the devil, does God still takes my prays as if they were to him and acts accordingly? Originally posted by GamingG It's because I always attack the argument, not the person 
Originally posted by GamingG Ah, it's because they don't have the right concept of reincarnation. First, coming to the earth is not obligatory, and you can choose not to. Second, you don't come to learn, as if you take a closer look, everything we learn is self containing, meaning, that it's useless to learn anything about our 3 dimensional reality in heaven (so, the reason must be something else, like coming to experience things that we couldn't experience otherwise). So, we would not be on a infinite loop of living (as we'll not get stuck in an infinite hell/heaven.) |
|||
|
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 950/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Uly It's not about religion. It's about God. Originally posted by Uly If you really mean it. There's a difference between actually being sorry and wanting to change, but just not having enough time in life to fix all of the wrong, and just trying to please God to barely get by into Heaven. God sees your heart and acts accordingly. Originally posted by Uly I still don't see how your argument gives any proof of reincarnation. Originally posted by Uly People that believe in God only because of their parents or others around them are truly lost. EDIT: After re-reading the above sentence, I can see that it almost looks like I'm saying that believing in God is bad. I didn't mean that. What I meant to say is that people that do that will probably not understand what they believe and will then go and force all beliefs from their parents out of their minds, which, in effect, means that any truth that their parents had in their beliefs will not ever enter the mind of the child. These people are the lost people that I am talking about. Originally posted by Uly God can control our actions, but he doesn't. That's free will. God could have just created us all directly in Heaven. But he didn't, because he wanted only those that actually wanted him. Originally posted by Uly Not necessarily. I said that the Jews don't have to because they follow God under the Old Covenant. Originally posted by Uly No, but, what I was referring to in my example is an exact replica of Christianity, except for a name switch. Obviously, it's the idea of who is being reached. It's no different than me saying "God" and a Spanish-speaker saying "Dios". Different name, same idea. Of course, the near exact replica does not exist. Originally posted by Uly Good boy. Originally posted by Uly Assuming your concept of reincarnation to be right, why would everyone so choose to fill their lives with false religions when they could have just given themselves the knowledge of the truth, or just made themselves not bother with believing at all if they wanted to keep the truth from themselves until death again? Also, by infinite loop of living, I meant: life, death, life, death, life, death... forever. (edited by GamingG on 12-23-07 01:16 AM) |
|||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 801/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
| Note: I'm tired of copy-pasting the needed code for a correctly displayed block-quote to appear, so I'm taking a different approach from now on.
> It's not about religion. It's about God. But the thread is called "What do you believe in?", not "Do you believe in God?" or "What are your beliefs about God?". So, if you believe in religion, then it's debatable. > God sees your heart and acts accordingly. See? Then God is deciding who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, that proves my point. > I still don't see how your argument gives any proof of reincarnation. As I said, it's not proof, it's just logic showing it as a likely possibility. > People that believe in God only because of their parents or others around them are truly lost. In my belief, doing good things for the wrong reasons is the same as doing good things for the right reasons. What matters is that you do good things, not why. > God can control our actions, but he doesn't. There's where our definitions of free will differ. If God were to see the nicest guy in town getting killed, why doesn't God goes and control the killer to stop its action and save the guy's life? In my definition God can't. In your definition God can, but doesn't. > Not necessarily. I said that the Jews don't have to because they follow God under the Old Covenant. On my belief, God treats everyone equally, whether they're jews or not. > Obviously, it's the idea of who is being reached. Well, they have the idea of praying to Satan, and that doesn't make them bad persons. > why would everyone so choose to fill their lives with false religions when they could have just given themselves the knowledge of the truth Maybe part of the fun is to come to earth and rediscover the forgotten truth.
> Also, by infinite loop of living, I meant: life, death, life, death, life, death... forever. I understood the concept, I was just saying that that sounds just as bad as "being stuck in heaven... forever." |
|||
|
GamingG Giant Goomba Meanie Will get around to Kya ha ha ha! Level: 61 Posts: 952/1247 EXP: 1823250 For next: 53346 Since: 12-23-05 From: Pwned Galaxy Since last post: 15 days Last activity: 4 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Uly Originally posted by Wikipedia Religion includes practices. According to what I was saying, belief and faith in God alone is enough. That's what I meant by "it's not about religion, it's about God". Originally posted by Uly Originally posted by Will Durant God says that you can trust in him and his son and go to Heaven, or don't trust in him and go to Hell. He gives you CHOICE. Choice defines free will. God doesn't force you into Heaven or Hell, he gives you Heaven or Hell as the consequences of your choices that you were able to make due to having free will. Originally posted by Uly But, for that to be so, one would have to have knowledge of infinity. Infinite time existing and infinite space in our universe and in Heaven, to be precise. Originally posted by Uly So, you're saying that the God that has the ability to create entire universes out of nothingness lacks the power to control the actions of one creation that is tiny in comparison? Also, if you want to question God on that, why not question him on why people hurt and die at all? Why did God even invent pain? Why did God give people the ability to kill and to harm people? Why didn't he just make everyone a perfect creation that does no harm to anyone? Because then we would lack free will. God does not interfere with the free will he gave us because then there would be no point in giving it to us in the first place. But that doesn't mean that he can't. Originally posted by The Middle East Dictionary I was refering to the underlined portion, to clarify. Originally posted by Uly In my example, no, it doesn't. In practice, it would, because they would be against God, envy and steal that which they desire, and care about themselves and power more than the welfare of others. Originally posted by Uly So, given that, I guess I can see how some would want to play a game of discovery, while others would choose not to, though, that still does not convince me. But, at least I understand what you're saying. Originally posted by Uly Sorry, I wasn't trying to belittle you by clarifying myself, I was only trying to make sure that we're on the same level here. I want you to do the same for me if you're not sure whether I understand or not. |
|||
|
Uly Boomerang Brother Stawker Level: 55 Posts: 802/1017 EXP: 1246510 For next: 67679 Since: 08-17-06 Since last post: 138 days Last activity: 138 days |
| ||
| > belief and faith in God alone is enough.
Well, I already believe and have faith in God
> God says that you can trust in him and his son and go to Heaven He does so in your Bible. But I believe that trusting in him (without needing to believe in his son) is enough. > But, for that to be so, one would have to have knowledge of infinity Ok, but even if we don't go to heaven for "infinite" time, it's still a huge amount of time as to keep my point valid. > So, you're saying that the God that has the ability to create entire universes out of nothingness lacks the power to control the actions of one creation that is tiny in comparison? What if God created us equal to him? It's just that when we come to earth, we get severely crippled, but our powers come back when we die. Still, even when we're crippled here, God doesn't have the powers to overrule our powers. > God does not interfere with the free will he gave us because then there would be no point in giving it to us in the first place. But that doesn't mean that he can't. But then we cannot tell when one of our actions were controlled by us or controlled by God. Then I could go and kill someone and then say "God took control of me and did that!", and there would be no way to know. Also, if God never goes and actually control someone, then why does him have the power to control us in the first place. > I was refering to the underlined portion, to clarify. Me too. God doesn't have different rules for different people depending on their religion. In my example, no, it doesn't. In practice, it would, because they would be against God, envy and steal that which they desire, and care about themselves and power more than the welfare of others. Would you have the same perception of me if I prayed to the devil but were exactly the same otherwise? If not, that's why I say that beliefs don't matter. I guess I can see how some would want to play a game of discovery Remember that that discovery game would only be a plus for coming to earth, not the purpose. Also, I think that you haven't stated, why do we come to earth at all, in your belief. |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Pwned Galaxy Board - Pwned Galaxy - What do you believe in? |
| |
|
Pwned Galaxy - Powered By GalaxyBB v0.53 (GalaxyBB is a modified version of Acmlmboard 1.A3, Acmlm, et al) © 2006 GamingG, et al The server rendered this page in 0.073 seconds. Loading... |